Active Listening, with Qin En and Parents In Tech

What can podcasters learn from the world of tech startups ? Forbes 30 Under 30 listee and successful startup founder, Qin En Looi dives in with his new podcast project, Parents In Tech.

Speaking at the very start of his new podcast, his topic stems from life experience for Young Guns in the startup world when children come along. We talk about how being open to learning and developing skill as a podcaster fits perfectly with Agile approaches to developing a startup business.

“podcasting also helps me train and develop Active Listening. Because it’s not just about a set list of questions, and you rattle it off like a checklist”

Based on an enthusiasm to tell human stories, our conversation takes in preparation, research, and delivery of a new podcast.

Links:

Parents.FM
Qin En Looi (LinkedIn)

Transcription

Martin Franklin 0:18
Welcome, and thank you for listening to Metapod. We’re out of the walk-in ‘robe for this episode, and I’m talking to a new podcaster. Qin En Looi, based in Singapore, Qin En is a successful startup founder and venture capitalist. So the question which I’m really posing to him in this interview, is what can podcasters learn from the world of tech startups? That’s a pretty interesting thought. And a lot of startups, as you may know, employ Agile methodology. So that means they don’t over invest in one thing before they know whether or not the audience would like it. So I’m giving away one of the tips from the interview before he even heard it. So how’s that for value? The other thing, which I think really defines this interview is I have my kind of questions prepared a vino, what I thought I might dig around for answer and try and get some good responses from Qin En. And as we talked, another idea emerge, which is one of the amazing things that always happens in this type of interview. And that was this idea which everyone who has started a business or certainly attended a business planning workshop will, will be familiar with this idea of find your why if I Why you doing this new project, and what’s good about it. So let’s think about that and apply that idea to podcasts as the real kind of kick off, find your Why. Why are you doing this? And then build your idea, once you know that answer? And hopefully your answers a good one, and you’ll get a fantastic podcast. Enough of me freestyling on this. Let’s jump into the interview.

Martin Franklin 2:18
All right. Welcome, Qin En. Thank you for agreeing to talk to me about your forthcoming podcast. So I wanted to ask you a few questions about where the idea came from, how you’ve scoped the project and where you think the podcast will be in nine months time. But first, before we get into that, Forbes 30, under 30. Tell me about that.

Qin En 2:48
Thanks for having me on the show, Martin. And yes. So in 2017, I was very fortunate to be recognized on Forbes 30, under 30. Back then, I was building my company cleanse, which was a tech recruitment platform. And I would say, being on the Forbes 30, under 30 list was always my dream. It felt like a mark of recognition. But the funniest thing was after I got on the list, I was like, Oh, okay. And it didn’t feel particularly great. I mean, of course, there was celebration, and there was the press around it. But I think at the end of the day, I realized that, hey, you know, this is just one of the many lists that are out there that provide some form of external validation. But at the end of the day, what really mattered was the impact and the business Dallas creating. So yeah, when these days when some of my peers do ask, Well, what it’s like to be Forbes 30, under 30. I’d like to tell them, hey, you know, Forbes 30, under 30. It’s great. But at the end of the day, you really got to focus on what matters and what creates value for your users or your customers.

Martin Franklin 3:55
Yeah, so yeah, although you get the recognition, it’s still on you to drive your business and build, build what you want to build.

Qin En 4:03
Exactly, exactly. And I think at the end of the day, these awards should be a reflection of the work you put in, it shouldn’t be a goal unto itself.

Martin Franklin 4:12
Yeah, absolutely. So that was 2017. When you’re a young gun, starting your business, having success, and now we come to the concept of your podcast, Parents In Tech. So life has happened in the meantime. So you’ve got your your startup experience, and then the family experience has just landed on you. And you’ve had a kind of aha moment of “let’s make a podcast about this”. So tell me about that concept.

Qin En 4:46
So about a year ago, I was very fortunate and blessed to welcome my first daughter into the world Gabrielle and the past year has been an absolute roller coaster journey. I think nothing really prepared me for this trip. Are parenthood while also trying to balance and juggle my career ambitions and aspirations. And I think as I went along this journey, I realized that I’m not alone, right? There are many dads and moms out there who are striving to achieve that balance that integration of what they want out of their family, as well as what they want out of the workplace. So I thought, what better than to create a platform where potentially I can talk to other moms and dads who are going through this journey, I can learn from them. And at the same time, share this with the other mums and dads who might be key. And I think Parents In Tech, it’s something that it’s close to my heart, because I think many tech companies, whether you are a founder, whether you’re an investor, whether you’re a leader in a tech company, there’s always this sense of a very dynamic, very intense culture. And there’s also almost this culture always being on working long hours, keep hustling. And that can sometimes take a toll, especially once you are a parent, you realize that you have other priorities. And it almost may seem like, Hey, maybe I am less committed to the company than my other colleagues who are non parents who can stay to the office to 10-11 work to the weekends. And so I think that can and should need to be a huge change around this. So I’m hoping that parents attack, it’s that small part in contributing to that movement and to that change.

Martin Franklin 6:28
Yeah, that’s a really interesting point. I, you know, I’ve heard a lot of talk recently about the the post COVID Great resignation, where people are reevaluating, you know, their their work life balance, and you know, whether they are really getting value from the amount of commitment they’re putting into the work place. So it does seem very much in tune with something that’s, that’s in the air. And so I know you’ve moved on now from your, your first startup company. But so how are you finding that impact of having a newborn child or in your own work life?

Qin En 7:07
I’m still figuring it out. But I think a big part of it, it’s about learning to set boundaries. And the past, I would say those boundaries were a lot more negotiable. When it was just me and my wife, right? It was two adults who could talk to each other who could work things out. And you know, she understands what it takes get busy. But when you have a new board, when a new when she’s hungry, which is uncomfortable, which is sleepy.

Martin Franklin 7:31
Yeah, they don’t understand, they just want exactly what they want right away,

Qin En 7:35
Right? It’s not like I can, it’s not like I could tell my newborn, hey, give me two minutes to send an email. That doesn’t work. And I think that really helps to put things into perspective on where priorities need to be, and also how to go about managing my schedule well, so it’s almost a point where I need to, and I have learned, for example, the sleep schedule of my daughter, and I’ve learned to schedule meetings around that. So that I am available to put her to bed at least. And when she’s sleeping, I can I can get on with her. So I think it’s really a journey that has been, I would say not easy. And it’s always like I feel I’m always learning, my daughter is also growing. So her patterns change along the way. But I think what I want to really share and hopefully due to this podcast, it’s to create a sense that, hey, you know, you might be going through a tough time as a parent, maybe as a new parent, as a parent or with kids who have grown up. But you aren’t alone in this, right? There are other people who have faced such challenges. And most importantly, it’s to hear their stories, and to be inspired, but not necessarily feel like you have to copy or compare with them. Right? There’s this idea where, you know, we always compare whether or not we are giving our children the best whether we’re being the best dad, the best mom, I think that’s that’s not really what we’re going for it the idea is to to crowdsource the different ways that parents have raised their kids have balanced their work, and create options, ultimately, for our audience to think about, hey, this is something that I think it’s going to work I’m going to try out, and hopefully it does for them.

Martin Franklin 9:09
It sounds to me like you’ve you’ve thought about this concept, you know, really well and in some good detail. Could you talk a little bit about the market research that you’ve done? That sort of led led to the start up of the of the podcast,

Qin En 9:26
Well, truth be told. It wasn’t really a market research. It was on a Friday evening, but I was just brainstorming of what I could do. And really the idea just popped up

Martin Franklin 9:35
But you’ve documented it really well, it looks kind of like it looks like a really well documented brainstorm.

Qin En 9:43
So I think the origins of this came about when I was inspired by some of the great podcasts that are around in Southeast Asia where they talk to entrepreneurs, investors and tech leaders. And I was really inspired after listening to some of them. But then as I thought, okay, What can I bring to to the podcasting audience? What can I bring to the Southeast Asia community? I felt like we do not need yet another podcast to just talk purely on how to build a company how to grow a company, right? There are people who have done that doing an excellent job at that. And then I go on the other side and look at what are the parenting side, because that’s something I’m trying to learn. And I realize, hey, so many podcasts out there, around parenting and family are actually created for, I would say, the American audience or the European audience, right? Now, parenting styles differ very differently, like in Asian and Western, but even within Southeast Asia itself, it just so many ways, so many nuances. And I thought, what if there’s a way for, for, for me to kind of like, bring this together and create conversation on not just about how to be a better parent, not just how to be a better entrepreneur, investor or tech leader? But how do you do both? Right, and, and, you know, when you’re good at one, I strongly believe that it helps the other.

Martin Franklin 11:03
So it’s very much drawn out of your own experience, this kind of fusion of family and tech startup business life. You mentioned, you know, some of the other business leaders in Southeast Asia, what have you got a sense of what is the the trend in podcasting in Singapore, or, you know, or wider,

Qin En 11:26
I noticed that many of the podcasts in Southeast Asia are actually interview based, which is quite interesting, because when I think about some of the podcasts, the popular podcasts, when I heard, let’s say in the US quite a number of them are, for example, the talk shows – Joe Rogan is one of the best, of course, he does have guests on, but I think virtually all the podcasts in this region are interviews. And I think that’s really because there’s so much interest in the human stories of what people go through. And I think the ability to be able to capture some of those emotions through an interview. That’s, that’s odd in audio, as compared to, let’s say, a written interview or an article, it’s really quite unique and distinctive. And I think that’s really where the beauty of magic of podcasts, at least in Southeast Asia comes by, is because when you hear the voice of someone whom you highly respect, I think that just creates a sense of intimacy and connection, that it’s very hard to hard to replace.

Martin Franklin 12:25
So we’re just kind of in the the warm up stage of just doing this the setup for the podcast now. And I’ve been really interested by some of the ways you’ve approached your decision making. And I was curious about whether there are any learnings that that you’ve had, from your experience of the startup world that you’ve applied to this as a project

Qin En 12:52
very much what I learned at a startup word, it’s, it’s that the lean methodology, it out, don’t think too much get a product, that’s, I would say, like a minimum viable product, get it out, get feedback, and see where we go from there. And that’s really how I would say this ParentId tech podcast came about. In fact, I think it’s only less than a month since the idea was formed. And here I am, just yesterday, doing my first interview recording, hopefully to launch it over, I would say the next one to two months, I think the idea is, I want to start small, try to get it out as quickly as possible. And I love to say that I heard when I was building my company, right? If you are not embarrassed by the first product you launched, it’s already too late. I think there’s a grain of truth in it. So it’s almost like I know, it’s not going to be perfect. It’s not going to be 100% polished. I’m not a professional podcaster. But I think I want to get started as quickly as possible, and see what my audience has to say about that.

Martin Franklin 13:48
Yeah, I always say to the podcast, as I work with it, there’s a massive amount of learning that will happen in that first season. And it’s useful sometimes to think exactly like that in a way that that first season is, is a pilot, it’s it’s a place where you can experiment and you can learn and develop your own technique as a host and find, you know, what is the sort of sweet spot for you? So yeah, it’s interesting to use that minimum viable product terminology. Out of all the people that I’ve worked with, it’s really interesting for me to hear the the timescale that you’ve you’ve worked in for this project, because you strike me as being like, super well prepared. And, and, you know, everything is documented and accessible. And, you know, there’s, there’s a plan and it’s really, it’s really impressive. So I just wonder, have you got any preparation tips that you could share with, you know, people who are thinking about coming on this same journey?

Qin En 14:59
I think what One of the things that I really learned, it’s ultimately, why should people listen to you? And to answer that question, in an honest and truthful way, right? I think I the way I think about it, it’s, you don’t, you don’t have to be the most impressive, the most accomplished person to start a podcast, I think you just got to be real and genuine to yourself, right, and to find a topic that is close to your heart, and you yourself are passionate about, if anything, I realized over this past one month of preparing for our podcast, it is a lot of work, right? It is a lot of work to think of the content to invite guests the schedule to set up your podcast, just so many things. And that’s even with your help parted. So I can imagine, try to do this alone. But But yeah, I think there’s just so many things that it at the end of the day, it really has to be something that comes from the heart, something that a topic that you are passionate, and you genuinely want to learn more about, right? So almost, for me, sort of like the selfish motivation in inverted commas. It’s for me to learn how to be a better husband, how to be a better father, and also how to be better at the workplace, right. And the best way I can do that, it’s by speaking to people, the podcast is is almost like a documentation a record of the conversation that we have. And so that’s really what inspires me. To start this, even as I thought about what would go into my first season, I thought, what better way to stand to speak to moms who work in technology companies, because my wife is someone who works at a technology company, right? So it’s about understanding who is the audience that you have. And working with that in mind,

Martin Franklin 16:39
I completely agree with your point about, it has to be something that you personally have a passion for, and the topic resonates with you. So were when you were doing your research about what, what other podcasts were doing? How did that influence your decision making? Or did or did it at all?

Qin En 17:02
I think to a certain extent, I was a little nervous to be honest, because I saw that there was so many great podcasts out there, even within the southeast Asia region. And so it was a matter of, Hey, man, I, I have so much respect for these people. How do I create additional interesting content and bring value to the audience? Right? I don’t want to be, for example, interviewing the same set of people asking the same set of questions. And then it’s kind of like that was really the struggle and the and the nervousness that I had. So I think a big part of it was trying to figure out, okay, what is something that’s slightly more unique, and what’s different, and ultimately would justify someone taking 2030 minutes of their time, even if it’s in the midst of a commute to to listen, and to participate?

Martin Franklin 17:52
So being really sort of mindful of that, what’s the benefit for the listener? To spend that time with you? Yeah, it’s it’s a little bit like, I’ve experienced recently, some business, mentoring. And one of the classic questions that the the mentor presents you with is about finding your why find your why, why are you doing what you do? And then when you can say that in one sentence, then that’s the building block that everything else goes on? It seems so simple, but actually, it sort of needs a little bit of formality around it to actually arrive at that answer. Like, you don’t always just know what What the Why is, you know, it does need a little bit of reflection sometimes. Yeah, totally agree about that. We’re just getting into this kick off phase. And you’ve you’ve recorded that, that first interview, how did you how did you find that?

Qin En 18:52
I was nervous how it’s a I remember, usually, you know, for meetings, I would just go into the link a minute before it’s scheduled. This time, I went in 15 minutes had to do all their sound checks and make sure I was recording. And I would say it’s a little nervous, right, especially when it happened. So but I think it’s once again, a kind of thing that I believe to practice and by doing, I’ll get better. But even in this first interview that I had, I mean, I just felt so inspired with, with the mom that I was speaking to. She has three teenage children, and just hearing how she was able to evolve a parenting over the 20 years of being a mum. I think that is something that’s inspiring, and something that gives me almost like a glimpse into the future of what life would be like for me 1020 years from now. And I think that’s really the interest and the power of of these stories that I’m really excited to take and share with my audience.

Martin Franklin 19:50
When you launched into that first interview. What kind of preparation did you do?

Qin En 19:56
I think it very much about of course, understanding where my guests professional background are. But I think even before the interview, just also understanding a bit more about her family. What were some of the lessons that she learned as a parent, and thinking about maybe the one or two key things that I really wanted to do to share in terms of the perspectives and her uniqueness. That was really what I was keeping in mind. And then as the interview started, it was pretty much free flowing. But I think podcasting also helps me train and develop active listening, right? Because it’s not just about a set list of questions, and you rattle it off like a checklist, I think they’re served to be a very boring podcast. But it’s really about having a conversation, right. And maybe there’s certain bits and pieces that were completely unexpected. But also being able to kind of grab on that and develop that during the actual conversation.

Martin Franklin 20:53
So you did a bit of research into the guest and their, their situation. So did you have any prepared questions?

Qin En 21:02
I did. I had three prepared questions.

Martin Franklin 21:05
And then you just freestyled around that?.

Qin En 21:08
Yeah, exactly.

Martin Franklin 21:10
I liked that. I liked that approach. So it gives you a kind of bullet point direction of where to go, but also lets you be responsive and natural too.

Qin En 21:20
Yeah.

Martin Franklin 21:21
That’s a great approach. When you think about Parents In Tech, in a year’s time, where where would you want the podcast to be?

Qin En 21:31
I would love the podcast to have shown and capture a diverse set of perspectives from moms and dads who read it the technology company leaders, their entrepreneurs or their investors, but to capture the richness of parenting in this region, as well as the challenges of you know, being a parent and striving towards career ambitions. I think there’s a lot of these that we can learn. And ultimately, I hope that my podcast can be a source of support, and a source of ideas for parents who are out there, and who might be going through a similar life stage as some of the guests that I’ll be interviewing.

Martin Franklin 22:08
That’s beautiful. So yeah, just as an ambition to just make some great content, make some great stuff that has value. Exactly. It’s got to be a foundation that’s worth building on. With the experience that you’ve had to date. Do you have any, any tips that you’d like to share for aspiring podcasters?

Qin En 22:29
I would say just get started. There’s always 100 reasons why you should not do it. 100 things that could potentially go wrong. For example, not hitting the record button just before you start a podcast interview.

Martin Franklin 22:41
It always happens at least once

Qin En 22:43
Exactly. But as then just get started really

Martin Franklin 22:45
not more than once

Qin En 22:46
pick yourself up and move on from there.

Martin Franklin 22:49
Brilliant. Okay, so I know from a conversation that we’ve had previously, that you can absolutely nail an elevator pitch. So if we wanted to encourage people listening here to subscribe or give give parents in tech a lesson. How would we How would you pitch it to the Sure.

Qin En 23:09
So Parents In Tech. It’s a place where parents, entrepreneurs, investors, AI technology, company leaders could come together and discuss real stories on the challenges of work life integration, and how to achieve their family aspirations with career ambitions.

Martin Franklin 23:28
Brilliant. Thank you, Qin En. So Parents In Tech, it’ll be on every podcast platform that we can possibly reach. Thank you, and we look to speaking again.

Qin En 23:41
Thanks so much, Martin.